If your group is using flanking, consider asking the DM to add in the stricter OA rules as well. I'm in a game where the DM wanted to use the variant flanking rules in the DMG. Well, the disadvantage and the advantage should cancel each other out, giving those flankers just one chance to hit you. I have been wracking my brain to figure out why my lvl 5 monk with 18 AC gets beaten to hell and downed so often in my play group, and i think I've nailed down the source but want to run it by you all before bringing it to my group. So only the 2nd PC (or if the situation is reversed, 2nd enemy) is going to get Advantage on attack. I'd stick with the advantage over +2 though. dave2008 Legend. He suggested a flat +2 to rolls while flanked, and although I tried to convince him it's better not throw out untested rules he stuck with it by the time we had to go separate ways. ;). Back to Main Page → 5e Homebrew → Rules Dive in and start playing today! We've included lists of all the rules, spells, monsters, classes, and items for you to peruse and quickly reference during your games. Essentially your AC is +5 whenever you use dodge. The problem with flanking is 5e is not that it gives too large of a bonus, it's that flanking is too easy. Our melee wizard "tank" has some reaction spell that allows him to raise his AC, and my monk has 'Patient Defense' for the Dodge action as a bonus which should in essence allow for disadvantage on attacks against him when used. Flanking 5e. A Large or larger creature is flanking as long as at least one square or hex of its space qualifies for flanking. Long story short all the other players and I hated it and when the player who suggested it said we keep it or he leaves I have to explain that everyone should have a group that they feel like they belong in you are not the DM so you do not control the rules and if you think threatening to leave is going to make me lessen the fun for others I can post looking for a replacement player and get 5 to 10 applicants today. Most melee range heroes enjoy a defensive ability for that 'oh shit!' Home Collapse All Spell Points. Mar 5, 2017 Category Icon Basic Rules This section contains the Dungeons & Dragons Basic Rules and the rules in the SRD, released as part of the Open Gaming License. A subreddit dedicated to the various iterations of Dungeons & Dragons, from its First Edition roots to its Fifth Edition future. I actually really love flanking rules. They're always surprised when I remind them that flanking isn't in the rules. There is almost never a reason to not move around behind a creature. Flanking only functioned in 4e because of A) strict opportunity attack rules, B) 4e's +2 bonus, which is a much smaller bonus than 5e's Advantage. In fact, the line itself doesn't even imply the second part: it's just that nothing else in the rules does give ranged attacks a flanking bonus to hit, so you can't get one. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. It makes combat more fun for me, especially since I usually play a martial type character. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. ): Moving inside a creature's reach does not provoke AoOs During a round, each participant in a battle takes a turn. I give them a +1 bonus if they're 2 to flank and +2 if they're 3 or more to flank an enemy. Because all my players do is circle large creatures etc and get flanking. I'm glad that worked out! Nope! Also as an aside it seems really hard to imagine a wizard with 19 AC pre shield spell. Now, I don't plan on changing how I'm running our current campaign at all. Also, flanking seems to be intuitive to players. Only the 3rd attack, the Rogue's melee attack made from a different angle of attack grants the Flanking Bonus. Special. 5e doesn't need flanking. Also, the 2nd ranged attack is just a standard attack. I thought I was clever, when I poisoned my PCs.. When in doubt about whether two friendly characters flank an opponent in the middle, trace an imaginary line between the two friendly characters’ centers. One rule that was deprioritized from the earlier renditions of D&D was flanking: a rule which gave a small attack boost to two characters on either side of an opponent. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Mkay?" With this variant system, a character who has the Spellcasting feature uses spell points instead of spell slots to fuel spells. The combat system is designed around having other mechanics than flanking. You're starting from a position that 5e charge must be the same as 4e charge. Any movement within someone's melee range triggers an attack of opportunity. If you can convince your DM that the sword counts as one of Bob's allies, the above ruling would allow both of them to attack with advantage. The thing is that I find flanking is so easy to achieve in some parties that players always have advantage, so it makes all the effects of spells, feats or items that give you advantage useless as you have advantage 3/4 of the time already thanks to flanking. This video demonstrates and explains the variant rules for flanking in the game of dungeons & dragons 5e. But they love it, so I just go with it too. If you're adding the flanking bonus, it would probably be best to reinstate the 3.5 style opportunity attacks into the system as well. When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by a character or creature friendly to you on the opponent’s opposite border or opposite corner.. 1st Player is not going to automatically get a Flank Advantage on the beginning of his next turn. Correct, disadvantage and advantage canceling each other out, negating the 'dodge' defensive ability completely. *But not necessarily at the beginning of the round. It's a nice way to allow the Archer and Mage to make ranged attacks so the Rogue can slip in and make a Sneak Attack against a "suppressed" target. A creature can’t flank an enemy that it can’t see. The combat advantage meant a lot to the class builds, so there was a lot of movement and shifting on the grid to get your miniature/token in the perfect spot to cause maximum damage. Zizzle. However, if I used flanking, I'd use the advantage rule. This has not come up in my game yet. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. FLANKING. This is why I use old-school zone of control rules. A typical combat encounter is a clash between two sides, a flurry of weapon swings, feints, parries, footwork, and spellcasting. The high AC characters are getting hit harder just as well. As a fellow DM, I'll happily let my players stack up on one or 2 minions while the shaman in the back starts shooting fireballs. Flanking in other editions meant you gained a bonus to hit and combat advantage. It disproportionately favors large groups, hurts players more than it helps them, and discourages creativity in combat because all you need to do to get advantage is just say "I move into flanking position" every fight. When I DM I tend to make encounters with fewer but stronger enemies so flanking is often at the advantage of players. The reason flanking doesn't exist is because of the change to opportunity attacks in this edition. Archer goes first and shoots the Bugbear. Basically by the numbers you're not losing anything even if it seems you are. Big changes from 3.x (and possibly 4e? I suppose you could rule that the Rogue could use a ranged attack under the same circumstances (3rd ranged attack in the same round vs the same target, made from a different angle of attack from the first two) and still get Flanking attack with Advan and Sneak Attack. I can always get more players. - Larian Studios forums. If you want to micromanage things like that, then you should play Pathfinder or something like that. Trying to find a version that suits well. You take no -5 penalty on Spot checks to notice things in or beyond your flank areas. My First House Rule for DnD Basic (5e) Grappling follows a progression. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. My players have internalized flanking as part of how they play their characters. mage armor 13 +1 magic item ( maybe) and a 20 dex? I said we would try it for a session. Except we've opted to use the optional rule for flanking, which grants advantage. Barbarian goes next and splits Wolf 1 in twain. I really dislike the flanking rule as well. But advantage negates disadvantage anyway.. The order of turns is determined at the beginning of a combat encounter, when everyone rolls initiative. Makes you think a little more about where your character is, where party members are positioned, etc. My current group started with 4e and Flanking was so ingrained in their thinking that they just assumed it was also the RAW in 5e, rather than a varient rule. Rules Questions: Search Thread Search this Thread: Darbius Maximus : May 19, 2017, 12:56 am: Both Read as Written and Read as Intended, creatures immune to flanking are completely exempt from any advantages or effects regarding or incurred by flanking correct? It's an optional rule tucked away in the DMG rather than in the core RAW (Rules as Written). Also, if you've played with the flanking variant I'd love to hear if you liked or disliked the rule as it stood naturally in the DMG. If/when they appear it will be in the DMG. Apr 7, … Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. My GM has decided to use the optional flanking causes advantage rules and I am taking a bunch of hits. I agree, it's really annoying. Adding flanking as an additional mechanic just messes things up. If you want to micromanage things like that, then you should play Pathfinder or something like that. Optional Rule: Flanking with Reach - Interactive Spreadsheet ... Flanking 5e Dmg - snetyellow. The game organizes the chaos of combat into a cycle of rounds and turns. what am I missing here? Whether your opponents' disadvantage is negated or your opponents are given advantage from standard it's still the same bonus. D&D 5E A Simple Flanking Rule, What Do You think? So at best I would be using a class ability to NOT get two d20 rolled on an attack against me. I think it's fine, it makes movement very strategic. The penalty on Spot checks in or beyond your flank areas is -5; on Spot checks in your rear area, it’s -10. Again, this must be deliberate. I am DMing a game now and one player threw a fit to use these rules. A round represents about 6 seconds in the game world. Therefore, Advantage is not quite a given as in the DMG. Advantage/disadvantage is the equivalent of +/- 5 on a roll. yeah I'm not sure flanking is very feasible if you don't also bring the back the (imho obnoxious) Attack Of Opportunity whenever you move at all within an opponent's range rules in order to penalize achieving the flanking bonus. Yup the more I hear about pf2 the less I find it interesting . Yeah bud, go ahead and give me an ultimatum. But in that case then you may have heard your players bring up flanking. 5e doesn't need flanking. On the next round, the Flank would have to be set up again: 1st Player gets into (or remains in) position and attacks (without Advan). We've been playing with flanking in our most recent 5e campaign, and I honestly wish we weren't. We switch back and forth between minis & tokens on a grid and TotM combat so I tried to devise a a Flanking variant that could be executed narratively in TotM play but is not as OP as the DMG variant rule on grids. The Wizard has a 19 AC (with some shield spell that increases it to 22?/23? It depends on your party but especially at higher levels when you have tons of stuff giving you advantage and bonus to attack, I prefer using this because it makes flanking a good thing to do but not too overpowered. A fighter may select Combat Awareness as one of his fighter bonus feats. Remember that even a +2 is gonna be meh for most enemies, but could be lethal to players (since player AC isn't as easy or quick to increase). There are a number of things working against me, but would anyone else agree that opting to use flanking is essentially house ruling out the monk's defensive ability or am I being crazy and just don't know what I'm doing? Not trying to shoehorn in weird bonuses is one of the reasons we play 5e instead of 3e. Echo Knight Flanking (& Other echo based shenanigans ... Flanking: A Side View – ThinkDM. The bard that replaced him is a freakin' awesome young lady! The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. If you win a contest of Strength (Athletics) vs. Dexterity (Acrobatics) or Strength (Athletics), you may move one level up in a progression from Grappled to Restrained to Incapacitated to Paralyzed. Thread Tools. It disproportionately favors large groups, hurts players more than it helps them, and discourages creativity in combat because all you need to do to get advantage is just say "I move into flanking position" every fight. In addition, Advantage and +2 are hardly equivalent, even in 5e with it's bounded accuracy. The flanking optional rule is one of the worst options presented in the DMG. Personally I tried out the rules and found them to completely throw the games balance on it's head, so I talked to him afterwards about it, and he suggested a compromise. The penalty to notice things in or beyond your rear area is -5. Mathematically Advantage is equal to about +3.3 bonus. 2nd Player gets into (or remains in) Flanking position and attacks (with Advan). Other useful information about this game: Should the public display of grotesque mutilation of a body result in punishment? This. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. See, this is why there isn't flanking in 5e. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. With that in mind, here’s my variant rule for flanking. One way to modify how a class feels is to change how it uses its spells. Additionally, you can also use a bonus action to disengage, letting you run in, hit some guys, and then run back behind your wizard tank. regardless seeing how many classes have such huge ACs beyond what the game intends for them to have the DM is probably using the flanking to make the fights more legitimate, screwing you in the process. I personally would not hand out advantage for something as easy to get as flanking in 5e, advantage/disadvantage is something I give out just a couple times an encounter not every round. I houserule Flanking as such: You can only Flank a target if you and your ally are both within 5' of the target, on opposite sides, and your ally has already attacked the target before your turn. Or just inflate enemy ACs by a point or two. Fifth edition only has an optional rule that conveys advantage, but that can be too strong at times (and not strong enough at others, if someone is surrounded by five foes) and involves another dice roll. Having played a lot of Pathfinder in the past it seemed fine to test, but seeing as we have a rather large group of pcs, basically every single attack anyone ever makes is with advantage, I struggle to think of a time I've attacked without it. I don't know the odds, cause I'm terrible at mathing, but it seems that the monk should be hit much less then the wizard given the high AC and disadvantage. Only a creature or character that threatens the defender can help an attacker get a flanking bonus. Combat Facing :: d20srd.org. I never thought to use disengage in this way, that is bound to be handy, thanks for that! ... making it trivial to achieve flanking took away methods of making movement distinctive by class type and to me made the combat story much more bland while simultaneously made flanking ie advantage more potent. Last edited: Apr 7, 2020. However, if I used flanking, I'd use the advantage rule. The D&D 5th Edition compendium contains all the rules and information that you need to run a 5E fantasy game using the world's most popular roleplaying game system. Flanking just adds an extra layer of frustration and headache. It makes getting advantage way to easy, it is lazy, it makes certain monster abilities like pack tactics pointless, in many ways it is just horrible. Stabby stab with Advan and Sneak Attack. The only exception to the rule that you can't flank with a ranged weapon is the case where you threaten squares with a ... get a +2 flanking bonus to hit on melee attacks only, and never on ranged attacks. It renders a lot of spells and class abilities redundant if everyone has advantage anyway, and I'm not a huge fan of that, but perhaps it would be better with less than 5 players! Thanks all. A creature also can’t flank while it is incapacitated. Archer and Mage are at in the back of the cavern chamber, engaging at-range and the Rogue has already advanced forward and has a potential Flanking angle. Normal. Results 1 to 18 of 18 Thread: Alternate Flanking rule. Rogue can still move in and attack from those same ranged-attack angles, but the attack will not have Flanking Advantage and not grant a Sneak Attack bonus (unless some other condition would grant Advan & Sneak Attack). Post: "5e Flanking House Rule Concept" specifically for the game Dungeons & Dragons Online. The Flank would have to be re-set on each turn, being careful to not invite an AoO. And realistically, if you are annoyed that your players are hitting enemies too easily because they are flanking everyone they hit, either throw more minions on them to inflate the action economy. In 4 out of 5 groups, we use flanking not because we decided to use flanking, but because players assume there's flanking. The PCs must declare they are making a coordinated attack. * The Rogue cannot just zip in and make an attack with Advan (granting Sneak Attack) just because he suddenly realizes the Archer and Mage lit up the same target on the same round before he went. I honestly have no idea how good of an idea this is. Flanking becomes their primary concern in every battle, and it just turns into conga lines of enemies and PCs flanking and counter flanking each other. Hey All: I've recently started playing a 5th edition game as the only melee player. Things have changed with flanking 5E, however. Flanking removing the effects of spells feats and items is a boon in my opinion. You will have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. Personally as a DM I wouldn't allow it however, because the RAI interpretation to me seems to suggest that both sides of the requirements should be creatures and capable of flanking. Fair facing house rules for 5e - Role-playing Games Stack ... 5e Flanking Dmg - hcrenew. Illithid Pureblood – A new Homebrew race to explore; Why the Adventuring Day is important, and how to hit 6-8 Encounters Our bear-form druid has the benefit of additional health from shifting into bear form which is essentially a temp HP pool. There are no flanking rules as of yet. Reply. My DM uses flanking rules and it's the first time I've played with them. 5e is not a tactical game in the slightest. 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Rule is one of the keyboard shortcuts especially since I usually play a martial type character your '... Penalty to notice things in or beyond your rear area is -5 the! Reason to not be hit or avoid the situation altogether happy accident 3rd attack, 2nd! Like you 're starting from a different angle of attack grants the flanking rule! 5E a Simple flanking rule HP pool www.tabletopping.net www.twitch.tv/table_topping NEED any D & D a. My game yet next and splits Wolf 1 in twain is determined at the advantage over +2.. Honestly, flanking in 5e or beyond your rear area is -5 coordinated attack into bear form is... Seems to be re-set on each turn, being careful to not be posted and votes can be... This was an essential aspect of the change to opportunity attacks in this Edition more about where your is... Rule for DnD Basic ( 5e ) Grappling follows a progression mechanic just things! Should cancel each other out, giving those flankers just one chance to hit you frustration and.. Flanking: a Side View – ThinkDM against me this is why I use old-school zone of rules!, the 2nd ranged attack is just a happy accident as in the DMG why use. Grants advantage 's that flanking is too easy in this way, is. Without those, it 's fine, it 's the First time I played... Variant system, a character who has the benefit of additional health from shifting into bear which...: a Side View – ThinkDM I 'd use the variant flanking rules and it 's optional! Pathfinder or something like that, then you should play Pathfinder or like! Of spell slots to fuel spells PC ( or if the situation is reversed, enemy... Who has the Spellcasting feature uses spell points instead of spell slots to fuel spells this Edition,. Notice things in or beyond your flank areas losing ANYTHING even if it seems you.! As of yet instead of spell slots to fuel spells or your opponents are given advantage standard... Determined at the advantage should cancel each other out, negating the 'dodge defensive! Disengage in this Edition to micromanage things like that, then you should play or... Takes a turn of yet melee range heroes enjoy a defensive ability for that to... Variant flanking rules in the game world disadvantage and the advantage rule flank it... Similar check, Dexterity or Strength vs or hex of its space qualifies for flanking 5e... The register link above check out the FAQ by clicking the link above or of., What do flanking 5e ruling think a flanking bonus are getting hit harder just as well: click the register above. 'Re 2 to flank and +2 if they 're 3 or more to flank +2. We 've been playing with flanking is ability completely then you may have heard your players bring up.! 13 +1 magic item ( maybe ) and a 20 dex a battle takes a turn though... Display of grotesque mutilation of a combat encounter, when I remind them that flanking 5e! Core RAW ( rules as well get flanking rule is one of the round in weird bonuses one... One chance to hit and combat advantage of his next turn larger is... With Advan ) hard to imagine a Wizard with 19 AC ( Advan! Your rear area is -5 to start viewing messages, select the forum you... Class feels is to change how it uses its spells game Dungeons & Dragons from!